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words of truth. finally, mike pence defying his former boss. >> president trump is wrong.

i had no right to overturn the election. the presidency belongs to the american people. >> and tonight, the former president releasing a rambling statement claiming he was right, and everyone knows it. the u.s. economy on a roll. adding 467,000 jobs in january. and calls for a new black/jewish alliance in america. and the winter olympics under way in beijing, along with the political sideshow put on by the leaders of china and russia. but i wanted to get with elie ho honig and stewart stevens. gentlemen, good evening to you.

stewart, former vice president mike pence saying former president trump is wrong, he could not overturn the election. the question is, why now? >> yeah, look, i don't think that we can be at a point where we're praising the vice president of the united states for doing his job. he took at oath of office saying he would protect the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. mike pence was at the middle of a conspiracy, and instead of calling the fbi, he called dan quayle. monahan talked about defining decency down. dumbing decency down. we're dumbing democracy down. at the very least, he should have done this a long time ago.

and the fact that he's out there saying it and people are acting like this is a big deal shows how far we're fallen. >> you're right. he took an oath. and i've been critical of mike pence for a lot of what he's done. but when push came to shove, he did do his duty, which he swore the oath to on january 6th. refused to go along with overturning the election. that's more than you could say about a lot of republicans that day, you have to admit that, know? >> 57% of the house republicans voted to not certify the election. as far as i can tell, no one has paid a price for that. they've all either stayed the same or risen in prominence and power inside the party. my question is, if it was 57% last time republicans lost an election, why won't it be 75% next time they lose an election? this is the precedent that has been set. >> yeah. elie, it's important to know, the select committee got

hundreds of documents from the trump white house just last week. then two top pence aides who were there at at the capitol testified, now pence is finally admitting the truth. it's been an extraordinary week. is this all connected, do you think? >> i think it could be. it's a good thing that mike pence said what he said today. what he did today was the right thing. but it's one thing to stand in front of the federalist society and make that speech. it's another thing, and a more important thing, to come forward and talk to the committee, talk to congress, to the american public on record. don't just tell us what is obvious, that the vice president did not have the authority to singlehandedly overturn the election. tell us what we need to know. what the communications were, what the pressure campaign was, how they went about trying to pull off this coup.

if he's serious about this, he can come forward. we'll see how serious he is about coming clean. >> trump has been going after pence for failing to overturn the election. take a listen to this. >> i only wish that my friend mike pence had that additional courage to send -- to send the results back to the legislatures. >> i was very sad when mike pence gave those votes over. >> i think mike has been very badly hurt by what took place with respect to january 6th. i think he's been -- i think he's been mortally wounded, frankly, because i see the reaction he's getting from people. they say, why didn't you just hand it back to the legislatures? >> i know you said, we don't need to decide today, elie said we don't need to decide if pence is a hero. i'm not sure, ever. but we'll see. if trump keeps up all this

bashing, do you think he could push pence to cooperate with the select committee? >> i have no idea what motivates mike pence. how do you stand there as the vice president of the united states, know that it was not a close election. know that you lost that election. and allow what the republicans did, to instill doubt into the legitimacy of the american electoral system? how do you just stand there and let that happen? i don't get it. the key of democracy, someone has to be willing to lose. mike pence lost the election, he should have come out and said that, thanked vice president-elect harris, should have been gracious. that's how we do it in america. i have no idea what motivates that man. >> cnn is also learning that jim jordan got a call from president trump on the morning of january 6th.

and it was ten minutes long. this was likely before the rioters stormed the capitol, and before jordan objected to certifying biden's win. he said he didn't remember it. how big of a deal do you think this is? >> i think we now understand better that clip of jim jordan being asked about his conversations with donald trump on january 6th, he stammers, dodges, bobs, and weaves. a ten-minute phone call with the president of the united states is something you would remember. so the committee, there's one of two ways, they can walk away. say it's not worth the fight, he's never going to testify, that's a weak approach. they can subpoena him, and hold him in contempt. but there could be political blowback from that. it will be a question of

political will and backbone. >> thank you, gentlemen. i appreciate it. see you soon. >> i want to turn to the january jobs report, shattering most economists' expectations. the u.s. economy adding 467,000 new jobs last month. and upward revisions of nearly 700,000 jobs added in november and december. that brings the total u.s. job creation to a record 6.6 million in president biden's first year in office. a much-needed win for the president, coming on top of the other good news, covid cases dropping and the killing of an isis leader. thank you so much for joining us. these are huge numbers. totally different than what economists were expecting.

why do we keep getting it wrong? >> tracking economic data, especially in realtime, is very difficult. this data, this jobs report, is based off of surveys. think about what has been happening dur ing the pandemic. people have not necessarily been living in one place all the time, and perhaps the gathering process that we've seen in this pandemic world is not necessarily so effective. >> i'm glad you said that. i wondered, do we understand this post-pandemic economy? i've been wondering. every time i have an economist or somebody who talks about the economy here, i wonder if we have the right metrics to measure and understand this new economy. >> it's a fair question, and it's one that economists are getting. one economist today said, look, there's a lot of reliance on government data and government efforts. perhaps there should be more

emphasis on what the private sector is hearing. i heard from one recruiter today, and she said to me, i'm not at all surprised about this jobs report. because from her standpoint, from her office in new york, she's seeing people getting hired, recruiting taking place. albeit at a slower pace because of the pandemic. but perhaps her viewpoint, her perspective, needs to have a little bit more weight than in the past. >> how should we be looking at the economy going forward? the stock market is not a barometer of the economy, and jobs, how should we be looking at it? >> i think everything is kind of up in the air. think about what we've seen during the pandemic. we've seen the recession, we've seen the great resignation. maybe we're in what i'm going to call the great reboot in the sense that every single aspect of our lives are changing.

we need to perhaps put different values in some of these changes. for example, working from home. it used to be a novelty. now it's the norm. does this mean that people are going to spend less money at the coffee shop in their office building, the dry cleaners in the office building may not be getting as much business? will we need homes with three bedrooms instead of two because we need the office space? maybe looking forward, we need to re-examine how this adds up. >> there's a host of things, working from home, it affects taxes, what you can write off, all of those things. the jobs report is clearly good news for president biden, but most americans aren't feeling it. is that because of inflation? >> inflation is impacting everyone. it is the pocketbook issue. and unfortunately, it does not look like that inflation will significantly improve overnight. >> that was my question, how long will that last? >> i was talking to some

economists in new york, they feel it's going to be with us for the next 11 months. some months may be better than others, some may be harder than others. another economist said this could take years to resolve. unfortunately, i think in the near future, we will have some hardship, especially when it comes to going out to eat, or going on a trip. keep in mind, during omicron, a lot of us stayed at home. now there's this new demand for going out to eat, going on a trip. food, fuel prices are high. so because of that new demand, because of the higher cost, and the need for labor, we could be paying more. and unfortunately, it's not going to be one of the moments where you flip a switch and things will resolve. >> inflation at a nearly 40-year high. and interest rates, what is the

prediction? >> last week, the fed chair indicated he will start to raise rates in march. and a big indicator would be when employment is at a strong level. so now this report, employment is improving. so interest rates will start to rise many times throughout the year. it's important to keep in mind, that impacts things like car loans, your mortgage, student loan debt, the list goes on and on. but we are going to have some more economic struggles ahead. >> so should you lock the rate in for a house? >> yes, absolutely, don. >> oh, boy. talking about the prices of things also, we moved, we said, old furniture, you never want to take it to a new place. we don't have any furniture, or very little, because it hasn't come in. >> used cars are selling at record high levels. >> crazy. >> yeah. >> thank you, sir.

good to see you. whoopi goldberg's comments about the holocaust have people asking, does america need a new black/jewish alliance? we'll talk about that, coming up. you can act quickly. that's decision tech, only from fidelity.

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we promised we would continue this conversation, so here we are. we talked about whoopi goldberg's suspension for her remarks about the holocaust. my next guest, derek johnson,

along with mark dahlinger. so good to have both of you on, to see both of you again. we did a great podcast, we talked about this about a year ago. and derek, we have these discussions all the time. you wrote for newsweek that there's an urgent need for reinvigorating the black/jewish alliance. >> race is a social construct. and that can create a dynamic where communities with mutual understandings and histories work to strengthen this democracy. in the '50s and '60s, we had many jewish individuals who were

able to come to this country. they taught at hbcus, they talked about applying democracy to all citizens. that's when we realized, through the strategy we have seen, you see young, white jewish kids, young black kids, standing up and fighting to ensure the safety against domestic terrorists. >> i want to play this moment from whoopi goldberg on colbert. watch this. >> if the klan is coming down the street, and i'm standing with a jewish friend, i'm going to run. but if my friend decides not to

run, they'll get passed by, most times, because you can't tell who is jewish. it's not something that people say, oh, that person is jewish, or this person is jewish. that's what i was trying to explain. >> we get that part. but it is important to talk about, because black and jew issuejewish people are both targets of white supremacists. what do you make of that? i understood what she was saying, i thought it was clumsy, but i got it. can you delve into that, please? >> yeah. first i want to say, american jews are a racially and ethnically diverse population. we count amongst ourselves people from everpossible hue.

up to a million american jews define themselves as jews of color. but what whoopi goldberg was saying, for most of us that are white presenting, we're not going to be seen as she's seen as a black american. so the target for her is far more intense and far more immediate. unless i choose to dress with jewish ritual objects, or a star of david necklace, she's right. the risk level for her is so much more profound. the other piece of it, though, is that jews also suffer persecution and anti-semitism, and even more painful, because the last few years has been the most intense in all of american jewish history. for us as jews to feel persecuted and traumatized, at the same time that those of us

who are white jews are also enjoying the privilege of being able to have a klansman pass us by, it's really sort of a complex both/and, where we have to hold a lot together to grasp the moment. >> what he's saying here, excuse me, derek, these conversations are very nuanced, right? what mark is saying is talking about something that may happen in 2021/2022. the conversation was about the holocaust and about race. that's what whoopi got wrong. there are a lot of trapdoors for understanding this conversation. what is the best way to go about this discussion?

>> look at our track record, our history. has she displayed herself as anti-semitic, she apologized for the statement. we also have to modify some of our reaction based on the history of the individual. when you come to the broader soc societal concern, the third rail of the country has never been addressed. the powers that be will always use race as a tool and weapon to divide communities. the individuals marching said jews will not replace us. but we knew they had very little regard for us as well. this social construct we call race has been so weaponized in this country, that it causes individual groups who by themselves have been demonized

to begin to turn on one another. we have to normalize a level of relationship between communities so we can begin to see ourselves as americans, to see ourselves as human beings. to see ourselves as people entitled to respect and dignity. >> mark, before the show, you told my producers about jewish americans, we can be powerful and privileged and white and suffering horrible anti-semitism, and we need to hold those truths together. is that hard to get across to people? >> it's a challenge. it's really -- you know, as mr. johnson said, race is socially constructed. so even white presenting jews have not been considered racially white and in fact the nazis considered jews a subhuman race. for those of us who are jewish and white jews who come through

the experience and memory of the holocaust, now in post-world war ii america, who enjoy a lot of power and privilege, to be able too to see in new ways the fact that we hold both of these simultaneously is challenging for a lot of folks. because it's really challenging, a lot of historical memory and a lot of ideas about how exceptional we would like to think that jews are. ultimately, i come to the conclusion that it's this ambiguous racial status for jews that leads me to hopefulness for the future, and certainly for a rekindled alliance with african americans. >> i've spoken about the black/jewish alliance a lot, and we do need to firm that up, re-ignite that again. thank you both. the conversation will continue. i'll have you both back. be well.

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the 2022 winter olympics are under way in beijing. but the two weeks of the games

are under a cloud of politics, as well as covid casting a shadow. the u.s. and several other allies holding a diplomatic boycott over china's human rights problems. but president xi and vladimir putin together at the opening ceremonies. david, it's a tense backdrop to the winter olympics. some of the tension playing out in plain sight. just how big are the political implications overhanging these games? >> yeah, don. as much as beijing has slammed countries like the u.s. for its diplomatic boycott, it seems like the geopolitics are unavoidable. putin and xi, shoulder to shoulder, ahead of the opening

ceremony. by showing that, china is adding to the politicization of this event as well. in some ways, this is a country that likes to reject the notion that they need the validation of the west. because in part, they don't. they have an incredibly robust economy, and a strong military. but what we're seeing is that state media is the first to elevate or promote the western countries' criticism. how does that play into these olympic games? well, they were supposed to be at that event that beijing hoped would push past the political implications. they wanted to leave the world with the impression of 2008. in 2008, folks looked at china with criticism, yes, but with intrigue of this emerging world

power that was opening up, so it seemed. back then, wow, look how far they've come. 2022 is, okay, where are they going here? suspicion and concern, for good reason, given the intentions and actions of the party in charge. >> thousands of miles away from beijing, russian troops are massing along the border with ukraine. now putin and xi are showing a united front, as china tries to showcase its power through the games. is it all about looking tough to the u.s. and the west? >> right, don, i don't think that, you know, the world's two most power. autocratic dictators is something we should be surprised about, or anything that is really new. because neither of them have any other strategic allies in the world. they're kind of stuck with each other, even though they're

eve frenemies, even though they shake hands in public. when you think about these games, of course they want to project this message of strength, and focus on geopolitics. talking about russia and china, is the u.s. getting us into a cold war, they are not talking about the genocide that is going on in their country, on our watch. the mass internments of uighurs, the jailing of dissidents. the difference in 2022, that's the genocide. that's why china has tried to threaten people with jail and the rest of it. it's really about human rights. that transcends geopolitics, and

that's what we should be talking about. >> let's talk about the games, one of the chinese athletes who lit the flame is a uighur. the u.s. has called the oppression of that group a genocide. is china trying to distract from its record of human rights here? >> it feels like a deflection. the message is, see, everything is fine here. america, you were making a fuss out of nothing. these events are near perfection. really well produced, and they're striking performances. but they're highly choreographed. the opening ceremony was no exception. the chinese choosing a uighur skier. trying to show they're not being detained but flourishing under the chinese communist party's control. we've reported on this

extensively, we've traveled to that region in china, we've heard from families separated from loved ones who they believe were put in camps. immediately after our visit, the chinese sent in state media outlets to refute our reporting. so this seems to be a part of the same consistent propaganda push. >> josh, do you think these olympics represent a big moment in the standoff between china and the west? >> in a way, yes. the chinese government, if you think about it, this is their chance to show their image to the world. this is when they're on their best behavior. after the cameras turn away, the uighurs are in a lot more

trouble than now. that's why i had a problem with nbc's coverage of the opening ceremonies. but i think that takes away the agency of the victims. and i've talked to -- as david has, as all of our reporters have, victims, survivors. people who are still suffering, who have people missing in their families. the evidence is huge. it's not a both sides kind of thing. it's not a he said/she said. there are mass atrocities going on. as journalists, we have a responsibility to point out the truth, and not just present this as, oh, well, it's a cold war, and mike pompeo, blah, blah, blah. elie wiesel said silence encourages the tormentor, not

the tormented. we need to use whatever leverage we have left to do something to encourage china to stop the genocide. if they're really concerned about the geopolitical tensions, they should stop this, and let us all talk about it without fear of arrest. i think that would go a long way to stopping geopolitical tensions. >> josh, david, very well stated. thank you very much. i appreciate it. international tensions, covid restrictions, not to mention performing among the best in the world. how intense is the pressure? there he is, olympic star, adam rippon is here, and he's next.

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if anyone knows about resilience, it's athletes. but today team usa isn't the only team being put to the test. businesses are facing mountains of their own. and just like our athletes, they're rising to the challenge. relying on the nation's largest gig-speed network

and the world-class secure solutions from comcast business. for today's olympic winter games and every day after, we'll be there, keeping businesses ready for what's next. comcast business. powering possibilities.™ the beijing winter olympics getting under way, with rising tensions between the u.s. and china, and the specter of covid-19. adam rippon joins me. he's coaching mariah bell, figure skater. how are you holding up? >> donald lemon, i've never been

better. >> just don, no donald. especially in this day and age. just don. >> okay. you've got it. don. yeah, don, i'm good. >> just a few minutes ago, i was speaking with our reporter in beijing, david culver, about the political tensions hanging over these games. u.s. diplomats are not there in protest of human rights abuses in china. does that affect the athletes? >> they know what is going on, they know that diplomats didn't show up. and i think that's good. i also think that, you know, when you're an athlete, and you're trying to get to an olympic games, and you dream of going, you know the date, but you have no idea where it will be. so i think the athletes who are here, they're totally focused on what they want to get done. what their goals are. this is a dream of theirs. but they're not blind to the controversy of the games being here. you know?

i think christine brennan from "usa today" wrote this scathing article on the games being here. she was critical of the ioc president thomas bach, and i think we all feel that way. but when you're here, your focus is what you came here to do, and it is the olympics. and you only hope that, like, you can cheer for the athletes, and this attention on china will pressure them into making some sort of changes in the future. >> yeah. the focus should be performing and winning. which is exactly -- and we should be supporting the athletes. but you're also there during a pandemic. there's also covid to contend with. i know there are extra restrictions and tests. the games are being played in a bubble. what is that like? >> yeah, the bubble is, like, the wild, wild west. it is honestly, i think the athletes feel super safe.

once you're in, you're in. like, from the moment, like, 96 hours before you even get on the plane to go to china, you are, like, living within a bubble. so i think there's no fear of, like, maybe i can get it during the games. they're taking every precaution necessary. i'll say, when i competed, i wasn't doing it with volunteers around in full scuba gear. maybe that would have thrown me off. but these kids are professionals, they can handle anything. >> yeah. before we go, can you talk to us about nathan chen's incredible performance? he finished first in the team short. getting the second highest score ever recorded. you're an olympic medalist skater. this is a good start for team usa, no? >> yeah, it is a great start for team usa. in the team event, they, um, performed and placed i think better than what they were expecting. i'm sure it is what they were

hoping to do. for nathan chen, specifically, when he was at the olympics four years ago, a favorite for gold then but he was superyoung and now he is 22. i am talking act him like he is an old maiden but 22. more seasoned. he is prepared and for the last four years, he has been so fantastic, that for him to now do it at an olympic games because for a lot of the world, hike they saw him in 2018, now they are seeing him again. huge monkey off his back. i hope this sets the tone for the rest of his games and that when it is time for individual events, he is there, he is prepared, he is ready and he gets to skate even better. he was so good. like, you know, my toxic trait is watching naan chen and thinking that i can do it. but then, i snow that, like, if i ever tried it, i would probably die. >> yeah. yeah. but you are -- you are coaching mariah, right? mariah chen and so -- mariah bell, excuse me. so, we wish you the very best, her the very best. we thank you. be safe okay? and come home soon. >> thank you.

>> thank you. >> i will. i'll -- i am coming home as soon as possible and thank you so much. >> good luck. good luck. we'll be right back. at fidelity, your dedicated advisor will help you create a comprehensive wealth plan for your full financial picture. with the right balance of risk and reward. so you can enjoy more of...this.

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